Continuing heart problems

[annelb]

We know all about don't look/don't find

[bear]

Hi Anne,

We know all about don't look/don't find

In that vein or any other suitable one, I second what Marilyn suggested - the Red Blood Cell Magnesium test.

Hopefully the cardiac doc will draw a RBC magnesium level when you see her, along with the other labs.

Marilyn

I have not studied heart arrhythmias but some other things come to mind. I think I would look closely at any test results you have for calcium an potassium over time. Since your sodium cratered, your potassium may have been weird too. Often when the body is low on sodium it tries to hold onto it by excreting potassium. Have you been having muscle cramps?

For calcium you might want to ask the doc to order an ionized calcium instead of the typical test in case your blood protein levels are out of whack. Your calcium should probably be toward the high end of the reference range if you are getting enough magnesium because you seem to have plenty of vitamin D3. Obviously if you are outside the reference range that is a big red flashing light. However a low normal value also deserves more investigation.

I think there are combinations of either high or low values of sodium, potassium, magnesium and calcium that can cause arrythmias so maybe you will pick up something by getting them retested and looking back at previous values.

That's my $.02 for things that might be overlooked because they are so simple among the many that can cause arrhythmias. Good luck on finding what is happening. We need you to hang around.!
Bear

P.S. You mentioned eating Paleo. Have you been able to reduce your carbs enough to have ketones show up on your blood or urine tests? If you are eating coconut or palm kernel oil that complicates things as you will end up with ketones from them even though your glucose levels can be quite high.

P.P.S. Do you take your calcium and magnesium at the same time?

[NancyM]

About sodium: I recently read the "Art and Science of Low Carb. Living" by Volek/Phinney, both research doctors. Something I hadn't realized before is that eating a relatively low carb diet depletes the body of sodium, which in turn allows other minerals to escape. People eating a lot of carbs tend to have the opposite issue, their body retains sodium.

Turns out a lot of what is called "low carb flu" is from this sodium loss and subsequent electrolyte imbalance. They recommend that people on an LC diet get a whopping 3-5 grams of sodium per day. I've been pointing people to that on the LC forum I frequent and quite a few have said it resolved their issues with fatigue. I've been LC for around 10 years now and I don't think I need that much more salt any longer, but when I get the occasional foot cramp, I try to get more.

I think you're following a paleo diet, and sometimes they can be quite low in carbs especially with blood sugar issues, so this could apply to you. Your heart issue complicates matters, but it might be worth experimenting with if you dare.

Here's a link to what I posted about that (hope it is allowed): Only registered and activated users can see links., Click Here To Register...

Keto adapted kidneys excrete more
sodium. In an effort to retain sodium, the body will then excrete potassium which can affect muscle protein balance negatively. This disturbed mineral management can also affect magnesium balance.

Later

Ignore this lesson and you are likely to suffer the completely avoidable problems of headache, fatigue, weakness and constipation—maladies that any Inuit healer would have promptly resolved by giving you a bowl of blood soup, or meat broth made with sea ice of the proper age.

[annelb]

I am going to push for a more detailed electrolyte panel. I don't have my latest potassium but a month ago it was 3.9. Interestingly, in Sept when I had to have my stent, my potassium was low. That is the first time that ever happened.

Funny, at the hospital I am there because of low sodium so they put me on a low sodium diet - had to laugh. The cardiac diet is low fat, low sodium but they will give you trans fats in the artificial creamer.

I think another reason for the low carb flu is gluten withdrawal. I certainly felt horrible for 3 days when I stopped gluten cold turkey.

I have been low carb paleo for about 4 years. I do have mild ketones with urine test. Never tested blood ketones. Yes, I eat coconut oil but not huge amounts. I use it in cooking.
Anne

[bear]

Hi Nancy, Anne,

I read the same thing by Volek and Phinney. I used to take a diuretic (Hydrochlorothiazide) for high blood pressure but also go a prescription for potassium because of the cramps I would get. Since that time I have been trying to find the sweet spot with increased sodium to wean myself off the potassium without making my BP go back up. I avoided adding any salt to my food for decades. I think "low carb flu" is both sodium AND potassium loss in addition to other stuff. Gluten withdrawal is an interesting possibility.

Years ago my wife was a ward clerk who first noticed how much better patients of one gastroenterologist did after surgery. He was the only doc to order a potassium supplement for all of his surgery patients and had the best record for post surgical recovery . My wife later had a bad case of Hong Kong flu. When she was finally was able to get out of bed and eat a baked potato, half of her symptoms faded away in about 30 minutes. Something about trauma, stress etc. seems to nail potassium levels. When I go biking I never use any sports drinks not just because they have huge amounts of sugar but also because they have only 3% of your RDI of potassium. I use TJ's V8 equivalent which is 20-25% of the RDI for potassium with plenty of sodium. I could use salty orange juice but I don't want the simple sugars.

About sodium: I recently read the "Art and Science of Low Carb. Living" by Volek/Phinney, both research doctors. Something I hadn't realized before is that eating a relatively low carb diet depletes the body of sodium, which in turn allows other minerals to escape. People eating a lot of carbs tend to have the opposite issue, their body retains sodium.

Turns out a lot of what is called "low carb flu" is from this sodium loss and subsequent electrolyte imbalance. They recommend that people on an LC diet get a whopping 3-5 grams of sodium per day. I've been pointing people to that on the LC forum I frequent and quite a few have said it resolved their issues with fatigue. I've been LC for around 10 years now and I don't think I need that much more salt any longer, but when I get the occasional foot cramp, I try to get more.
...

I recently had a more extensive cholesterol test from Berkley Labs where they actually measure the constituents of your LDL's. On the first page are the more or less traditional values where LDL's are calculated by formula which assumes the ratio of triglycerides to cholesterol is constant. For low carb that assumption is way off as your triglycerides crater. My calculated LDL's came in high as Volek and Phinney predicted. However on the second page of the test the LDL's are split into groups by size. Smaller sizes increase risk but most of mine were larger so my risk came out just above normal. I used low carb to significantly improve all of my cholesterol values but the customized diet recommendations that came with the test results were for a low fat diet - the opposite of how I managed to improve my results and would make reverse all the improvements.

Are you taking any meds that might impact your potassium levels?

I am going to push for a more detailed electrolyte panel. I don't have my latest potassium but a month ago it was 3.9. Interestingly, in Sept when I had to have my stent, my potassium was low. That is the first time that ever happened.

Funny, at the hospital I am there because of low sodium so they put me on a low sodium diet - had to laugh. The cardiac diet is low fat, low sodium but they will give you trans fats in the artificial creamer.

I think another reason for the low carb flu is gluten withdrawal. I certainly felt horrible for 3 days when I stopped gluten cold turkey.
Anne

Bear

[NancyM]

Well, the reason you lose the potassium is because you don't have enough sodium to be able to recycle it. In that thread I linked there's an explanation that sodium causes a sort of molecular glue that allows electrolytes to be trapped and recycled. If you don't have enough sodium, that glue falls apart and they get pee'd out. Then the body has to go somewhere to get those precious minerals, so it might tear down muscle or bone to get to them.

There's another thing that can cause high BP and that is if sodium and potassium aren't in balance. Most people don't get enough potassium.

Nu-salt has a lot more potassium than any supplement you can easily buy at the store, so it can be a good thing to mix it in some water.

Then, I know some BP meds you can't supplement potassium, so that's always a factor too.

Regarding urine ketones: They're a different sort than blood ketones. In fact, mine are always undetectable even when I've got a fairly deep ketosis going. But probably because I've been in ketosis for the better part of 10 years, I'm probably pretty keto-adapted and just burn them as fuel.

[annelb]

Got the arrythemia diagnosis. I have left bundle branch block. That is when the electrical signal slows down in the left ventricle. The good news is that it is not about to kill me, I don't need more tests, I don't need a pacemaker and I don't need toxic medications. The bad news is he had no suggestion for treatment other than exercise.

At least I now know I am not in imminent danger of a heart attack.

I could not get him to do the RBC Mg but he is adding the serum Mg to the basic metabolic panel. He want to recheck my sodium. Seemed interested in the articles about hyponatremia after cardiac cath that I gave him.

Maybe I can visit my new grandson now.

Anne

[Marciab]

"Got the arrythemia diagnosis. I have left bundle branch block."

Interesting. I have one of those but my resting EKG is abnormal. Is this new for you ? Mine started when I got ME/CFS back in 1990 after getting a nasty virus. FWIW, my cardiologist says my EKG hasn't changed in the last few years.

BTW. Purkinje cells are involved in how the ticker operates. I was hoping since the GF diet helped my ataxia it would help this too but it didn't.

hope you get to visit your grandson soon ... Marcia

[annelb]

Marcia, sorry you have a LBBB too.

My resting EKG is good. Mine is considered to be rate related or exercise induced. I have found a few articles that say this can be improved with exercise. I now need to find out what sort of exercise is best. Today I walked a mile and did fine. Symptoms only when my pulse hit 90-100. Normally it is 60 as I am on a beta blocker.

Have a Mg test in the works but it is not a red blood cell Mg - he had a blank stare when I asked for that. I will get my PCP to run one...or my integrative doc.

Anne

[annelb]

Think I need to get my blood pressure up a bit. After exercise yesterday it was 86/58. I have been told I can stop my Altace which is an ACE inhibitor so I am going to start that tomorrow. No wonder I feel totally wiped out and sleepy after I exercise.

Anne

[aklap]

86/58 - holy crap! Is it normal to have BP drop after exercise? Mine drops as well...not that low... 115/70-something. I'm on back on a Atenolol (beta blocker) now.

[annelb]

My BP was way low all day today. I forgot to hold my Altace.

I also checked my blood sugar throughout the day and except for one tiny spike of 111 after breakfast, it has remained 90 or below all day long.

Found out that conduction defects like my LBBB can be caused by Lyme Disease. Wonder if?

Anne

[Razzle0]

Absolutely could be Lyme. Blood or CNS PCR for Lyme is notoriously inaccurate. Best test is IGeneX WesternBlot. But if you want absolute proof of current, active infection, get the new Advanced Labs culture test. See Only registered and activated users can see links., Click Here To Register...

[jcc]

That is low! What is your heart rate? When my blood pressure was very low like that...my resting heart rate was also high. Like 120! That was all back when I was first diagnosed hypothyroid.I think something is still amiss with you? Have you always run that low?

[canoe]

Sorry that you forgot to hold your Altace today,

We used to do IV's on pt's who came in with a systolic BP (top #) of below 90.

I hope that the rest of your day went well.

Hospital actually had a nice salad bar int he cafeteria today, and they also had GF pizza.

While I did not get the GF pizza, I was pleased to see it offered as a selection.

Marilyn