relationship issues better get a drink

[houghchrst]

Yes I has them. Gads I can't believe I'm doing this and have no clue what I expect but I feel this need to get this out and I have no one but you guys to talk to. My Princess knows but she was on scene for the start. Maybe we have others that have relationship issues 'course not many people want to talk about something so private. I have a big mouth though so while it took me a while to get up the nerve obviously I'm here.

Okay the start. Thanksgiving evening and everybody but me has gone to my 'MIL's' for dinner, I am waiting on my Princess cause she's gonna trail along and I'm riding with her. She gets here within minutes and I get out to her car only to realize I had forgotten the garage opener, can't find it in the house so go out to our other car thinking it may be in there. Find a pack of condoms under the console insert instead. I run them into the house because now I'm rushing and shaking and my heart is pounding and I am trying not to breakdown and I'm telling the princess all at once. I almost didn't go but everyone was there and I had one of the dishes, Princess says go, get through dinner and give him a chance to explain.

So we go but I can't go in and fake it. Not something like that. So the second the door opens he's standing there and in a no nonsense voice I let him know we need to talk outside. So we go out in the side yard in the dark and I throw the box of condoms at him and ask where they came from. He gives me the answer I know he will give. They're my brothers. Point out that he's lying and I know it. So out it comes. He reconnected with someone on Facebook, of course, just like I predicted, from his old neighborhood from when he was a teen. They started talking and were both in the same situation. Relationships that had gotten stale, sex few and far between, lack of communication, blah blah blah. All the great things that ruin a relationship.

Guess I had actually met her maybe twice about 15 yrs ago. She'd been to my house when he and I first met.

She wanted them to meet at some hotel. Guess he couldn't do it. Unfriended her on Facebook and wrote her a note saying it wasn't right and he couldn't do that to me. So after I asked him to wait to leave until after Christmas for Shortcake's sake he decided we needed to talk. So we did. A lot. I talked a lot. And while blame lays on both he knows, I know that I am the main fault in this.

Yes I can hear it all, 'you actually believed all that?'. Well see the condoms weren't opened and I could tell they had been there for a while. I'm thinking this all had to have happened about the time I had my foot surgery but the more questions I asked, and I did and I'm not done, things occur to me here and there, anyway it all happened way back before he got the job at the Pharmaceutical company. He only talked to her maybe ten to fifteen times and she hasn't tried to contact him. She didn't even message him back when he told her why he couldn't do it. See she's married and has kids too.

Do I believe all of that.........yes for the most part.

Now here's some advice, things I learned and things I'm learning to change. Ugh I hate change lol.

Don't force the person who loves you to prove it everyday by treating them like %*#+ and having them not walk out the door. I heard, in the oddest place, the phrase 'she treats you like #^%+ because she loves you and is afraid you'll leave.' Like a slap on the back of the head I tell ya. Yep, and I knew it, couldn't stop it, fear, jealousy, bipolar winds, disrespect, bad attitudes, belittling, yep I heaped it on him for years.

Now honestly I have been discussing it in therapy this past year and have been trying to not be so condescending in the way I speak to him. That was about the time this happened too though I didn't know then. That is getting better.

Talk, talk, talk. Talk bout everything. I've gone back to writing letters too, I have trouble with expressing my feelings face to face and I screw everything up talking because my emotions runneth over. Now sometimes I leave the room, gather up my nerve and come back to talk. Also learned a long time ago to not use blame talk. Don't start out any sentence with 'you make me'. It's an untrue phrase as no one can make you feel anything. Start out with 'I feel.....'. Yeah yeah. Lol is that dr. Phil?


Sex, I'll tread lightly here. When ya hurt, ya take a lot of meds, psych especially, your every waking moment is filled with anxiety and resentment it's kinda hard to want to have sex. Not to mention the issue someone else was struggling with getting right to the edge but not achieving the climax. Yep my psych meds do that too.

I saw on Dr. Phil, yep him again, go ahead roll your eyes lolol, where he suggested to spouses who have trouble even feeling like having sex to just try playing along. Once your body is stimulated the feeling can come on quickly. If not then stop. Don't be afraid of toys. Kripes did I say that? Touch a lot, a quick caress while passing in the hall, a kiss on the back of the neck while cooking, talk with your arms around each other.

Now don't get me wrong, we laugh everyday, we touch a lot, we talk, just minor chit chat, and we get along, we have a good time together but neither one of us told the other what we needed from them. Two people in the same house yet feeling so alone. It's dumb. You either let go or you spend every moment feeling and expressing love.

I kinda think that may be part of what life is all about. Love, loving and being loved. Not just each other but everyone. Every living thing.

my new mantra is 'he just wants to love you', no matter he doesn't load the dishwasher 'right', washes all the same clothes over and over again and leaves the towels and sheets, destroys the kitchen every time he makes dinner, never puts anything back, still thinks farting is funny and big time wrestling is real. He's my dork and I adore him and he me. I just need to open the gates and let all that dang love in.

tis kinda hard to do when you are unhappy but I think I would be a lot happier if I just loved


now we can segue into how my mom taught me that men are stupid, unnecessary and untrustworthy lolol. Not really. I'll spare you and leave that for my therapist.

thank you my peeps for putting up with all this and if ya got a question ask it

[dawnmn]

Chris, sometimes (MHO) we have to get slapped on the head to realize how much we love those dopey guys.
I've been married for 31 years and still have to be slapped once in a while.

Sex, h@ll with being on meds and dealing with everyday life we tend to forget to nuriture our relationships.

Here's a great big hug to both of you {{{{}}}}

Where are you two headed now?

[sly4626]

Well, I've gotta say I am SO GLAD you said all that!! Amen. Boy you really hit the nail on the head with this one! You just summed up my relationship with my husband too.

"He's my dork and I adore him and he me. I just need to open the gates and let all that dang love in. tis kinda hard to do when you are unhappy but I think I would be a lot happier if I just loved"

And you know what? I agree!! It really is that simple isn't it? But why is it not sometimes? Why do we have to go and mess it all up? That's what I'm saying to myself. I must be more grateful.

I feel like my husband Is always in my business. Like can I seriously go potty without him in there talking all the time??? Ugh but yes, he just wants to love me. Mine's a dork too lol! XO

[Buttons2]

all depends on your attitude I suppose. seems to me that he came clean after being confronted right? he unfriended her right? he's waited many years for you to marry him Chris!gosh,how about ya just go ahead & marry this wonderful man & see what happens?

no wonder you've been so stressed! let it out.

[joy]

you have gotten good advice so I will just try and give you ((((HUGS)))).

[tic chick]

hey chris,

i have been so sick since monday. some kind of wretched upper respiratory tract infection, no sneezing, just this feeling like an axe is slitting my throat everytime i cough. i have used vick's vaporub, which help's the pain so much cause it soothes the membrane's in the throat and i have taken some tramadol to get rid of the daily headache and rib and muscle hurting bodyache. so today i can finally taste food and it taste's normal.

so, i am re-reading a book by melody beattie about codependency called "playing it by heart" (taking care of yourself no matter what). i do not have to wrap my head around this cause i already know the concept of codependency (it's when a person who live's with an addict tries to get the addict to quit by using everything in their emotional arsenal of weapon's and soon they become unhappy and unable to function, because they are not taking care of their own soul's and they are so wrapped up with the addict, who of course, doesn't give a chit about them). so i am reading this book and applying it to my own life right now and i am happy to note that i have come a long way, not quite all good yet, cause now that i've left the addict i have trust issues and other issues, but at least i am living my OWN life, not his.

so chris, i know you know all about codependency. why does what you said remind me so much of it? i know you and cj are not addict's...but maybe it's those behavior's that keep popping up in time's of stress. you keep blaming yourself. stop. cj know's what's wrong with you, he's been living with it for year's. he has to know what he's gotten himself into? you know this isn't the first time you've had doubt's about him.

okay, you say you gotta just let the loving in. everytime something like that little packet of condom's get's in front of that loving door, it stop's trust from entering into you. trust just doesn't come and set up house and stay. it build's on yesterday. yes, you can't expect to treat a person like chit everyday and then ask them to prove they love you, just as cj can't be talking with old girlfriend's from high school on facebook or in a bar and expect you to keep trusting him. especially cause you don't know if there will be a next time something like this happen's. i'd say there is enough mistrust for both sides to divide it equally. i know talking together is important, but it has to be an equal exchange of feeling's (oh, wayne dyer was the one who said everyone is responsible for their own feeling's, not dr. phil ). therapy facilitated talking.

boy, would i get my hackle's (whatever those are.......lol?), up if a man said about me, "she's my dingbat and i adore her and she, me." ~~whoa~~

i think everyone has to love themselve's before they're ready to open up and be loved by a another person, because no one else's love should have to fill us so much before we feel good about ourselves. chris, it is so great how much weight you have lost and i congratulate you for that. losing weight was such a self-esteem booster for me. i think the more self-esteem we have, the less we are willing to "settle" for something just because it is familiar. at least we will demand that our partner's be equal's with us in committing to a better relationship. that mean's we talk to each other when we feel something is not right between us, before we hook-up with that cutey on facebook. it mean's we give up wanting to control everything and everyone around us and are undertaking the experience of controlling ourselve's and what we do. if someone say's they love us, we have the right to expect to trust them not to hurt us with that love. i think what we do is more important than what we say.

yes, love is not perfect nor does it have to be to work. there do have to be 2 whole people happy with themselves, people with similar boundaries, morals and expectation's, too. one person talking, taking the blame, trying to change doesn't sound like that and saying love will conquer all is a cop-out. you can't let love in without giving it the necessary feeling's environment to thrive and grow.

i really think you have to consider couple's therapy before you walk down that aisle. you can't go back, there's only forward or away.

jeannie

[houghchrst]

thank you guys. I tell ya Jeannie I would much rather say that my man is a dork, and he knows this, than my man is an a$$hole who never talks to me or takes me anywhere. I am sure that he wouldn't appreciate that just like the last thing i want him to say about me is that my woman is a biotch and a nag and we never have sex. This is how men in general talk, I've seen it and heard it. This is how his brother's talk about their wives and I tell ya the second those guys hit our door the phones start ringing with them checking up and to whine and complain. It drives me batty and I feel like giving them women a piece of my mind. But none my bidness.

He doesn't go to bars and he has stopped friending females. When he got on Facebook he thought it was great that he was getting all these friend requests. Whether he knew them or not. Like a Facebook newbie who has over a thousand friends but knows maybe 6 of them.

I am the one with the trust issues. I always have been. I mean after being with someone for 13yrs, getting married and having the marriage fail after a year kinda puts the kibash on wanting to do it again. not to mention watching my mother go from a seriously mentally ill man to an abuser wasnt a very good lesson in relationships. She was single the rest of her life and she never trusted men. She never trusted men not to cheat, to molest, to abuse, to lie. The last time I had a father figure in the house was when I was 11 and he thought he was going to abuse me. He was greeted by the hollow end of my grandma's shotgun for that. Gone not long after.

I am the one who made CJ prove he loved me everyday. And he did and does. I am the one who has issues being grateful, he does everything around here. From laundry to scrubbing the tub. No he doesn't do it the way I would but by gawd is it necessary to constantly speak to him with a snarl in my voice, like he's stupid and incompetent, treating him like everything he says is wrong, everything he does is wrong? For 15yrs I have just been so consumed with fear that he will leave me for someone more able, younger, skinnier, prettier that I have not been able to just enjoy us. I mean he is young and even younger then when he got into a relationship with a woman with a small child who both had mental and emotional issues and he gave up his life to love us, care for us, and support us and he is doing an amazing job. A real born caretaker, lover and friend. He has accepted our life.

as for sex we are talking months, I mean months in between. Yes it is my meds, yes it is my anxiety but come on I never even tried and sabotaged things before he would even get a chance to initiate. Affection yes, he is very affectionate, he's a hugger, kisser, squeezer, very much sex oriented, which sometimes can be exhausting, but I always acted like affection was a chore unless I wanted it. I crave affection, need to be touched and love to cuddle. I read this and I ask myself why? Good lord that is a whole bunch of mind *^%+ there because I was angry, resentful, depressed, needy, jealous. Why should or would anyone put up with it for that long if not love. Codependency? Maybe but I am not finding the nugget in the center of that issue. Maybe therapy can help me figure that out.


He knows he was wrong. He's not blaming me and I'm not taking on all the blame. we were both at fault. but i do know that i directed all of this like a well played concerto. He knows he has flaws and yes therapy for me and him are in the future but right now ive got to do something about me. i cant go on like this. We are learning to discuss what we need from each other, another issue, I expect him to be psychic and try to guess what I need from him and then give it to me and if he doesn't I treat him even worse. I am learning to tell him what I need and why instead of just tolerating and then resenting.

Cj and I come from similar worlds even though there is an age difference and his parents relationship, her second, after leaving his biological junkie dad lasted forever. Until his stepdad died a few years back. They were loyal and loving and affectionate even though they weren't the best parents lol. So for him relationships are meant to last. As for what happened I am quite frankly surprised it didn't happen sooner. See I was so worried and anxiety ridden and sure it would happen that I steered our relationship in just that direction.

jeannie I wanted to ask you if you and your husband use to play? I mean just that silly, childish, chasing through the house laughing hysterically play. Wrestling, bumping into each other, grabassin', laughing at fart jokes and potty humor, Dutch ovens, jumping out of closets to scare ya so bad ya laughed and peed at the same time kind of play. We do, we rag on each other, we tease, we name call, ya know ninny headed cotton muggins, we are the sarcastic family. Both sides of the family so it is very entertaining around here. I know, yer all thinkin holy smokes I am too old for that, well so am I and I love every minute of it. Can't run as fast, or wrestle as hard but I can play dammit and our love and laughter and sense of humor is what has really kept us together this long. I had lost some of my ability to laugh. I want it back. I want to be able to talk about my feelings and what I need. I want to be able to trust.

I never really had one real reason not to trust him. Ever. Until this. It was all in my head. Now it's not, it's out there and we both know it will take time. He says that he doesn't expect me to get over this for a long time, he's apologized, he's an open book, he's cried, which I tell ya just doesn't happen. Maybe a total of three times in 15 yrs until this. He is apologetic both in word and deed.

What next, well I tell ya I have no clue. One day at a time. For the last almost year we have been kind of fooling around with getting married, i mean really a 13 yr engagement?, and he is quick to remind everyone that the reason we're not is my fault lolol. True, been lectured by judges, therapists, FOC, and friends and family about getting married but ya see what happened to my last one lol.

Sly I know what you mean, we were together for about two years before he finally figured out that I was actually hiding in the bathroom to get some peace. Not much peace with somebody knocking on the door either yellin' 'mooom' or asking 'what ya doin' hunny' lolol. If I am in the bathroom now it is sacred. No one knocks unless there's blood involved and my shower or potty time is not to be disturbed. No one comes in if I am in there either. I keep all of my fun books in there lol.

My poor Princess she loves to take bubble baths but rarely gets to do it if her hubby is home because he has a whining fit if she locks the door and he feels the need to be in there while she is soaking just to see her naked. I told her to lock the door but she says that she tried that and he went into pouty face you don't love me mode and wouldn't let it go so now she just tolerates it. Couldn't live like that. Don't tolerate no whiny man. My first was a whiny, self pitying momma's boy but I was young and he was my first love and we both had gone into panic mode. Cj is the opposite.

Okay gotten way long and as usual I've babbled too much.

[Buttons2]

Chris,kinda seems as though you & CJ are married. you've been together for years & you have a child together.marriage is just a piece of paper creating a legal union afterall. since you feel so insecure & don't have trust a ceramony cannot change that can it?

couple counseling sounds like a good idea.

sorry I'm just rambling. very hard for me to type these days.Much less think!

[tic chick]

chris ,

okay, i hear ya.

i was using the bar as a possible example, to make a point. it seem's like cj might have some codependent issue's also if he had a father that was an addict and he saw that as a child. have you done "family of origin" work with your therapist? chris, in addition to being in recovery the last 10 year's you are also a codependent to your mom's alcoholism. issue's of trust are very common in that situation. melody beattie has so many book's on various aspect's of codependency. i'm sure they're all in your library. you can even go to amazon and find paperback's of these book's from various seller's, all discounted depending on the condition.

something has been keeping you from marrying cj for this long. yes, he is a good person, but he has fault's. yes, you are a good person, but you have fault's. i had a previous marriage, started and finished within 8 month's. i know what it was all about, so i learned the lesson from that quickly. i wasn't afraid to fall in love again and get married, because i wasn't in love the first time.

yes, i was unimaginably in love the first 10 year's of my 2nd marriage. i was more the jokey smurf than he. we had a weekly weekend pick-up 500 gin rummy tournament. we laughed at the people next door when they thought the air conditioner turned on in their bedroom in the summer drowned out their loud lovemaking. we laughed at a fart joke one night for an hour, building on it. we bought a used basketball pole and put it in our yard and played with our son. the men were amazed i could even throw the ball up to the net. we had picnic's every saturday in the summer in our yard at lunchtime, we had sunday dinner every week for 25 year's, alway's with hubby's mom invited and the kid's enjoyed her. hubby coached my son's basketball team. we went to basketball game's, band concert's, volleyball game's every year for 20 year's when all our kid's played some sport. slowly we became a child raising business and quite good at that, but we lost whatever there was between us. i know alcohol played a part in that. in 1993, i started making my own life, independent of my husband's company or approval. one day, i forget when, he did something i will never forget...i was passing by him in our narrow kitchen when all of a sudden he put his arm around the back of my waist and pulled me to face him and then he kissed me. these are the good memories i have to sustain me forever. the bad memories are as bad as the good one's are good...so, i'll skip those.

yes, we went marriage counseling...4 time's. marriage counselor's are smart. part of their job is accessing who is the most able to change in a relationship, because if both people could change, probs could be solved a lot easier without counseling. of course, it was obvious i was the one most able to embrace change. i did change, to a point. when it came to asking for thing's i wanted, my husband was unable to change. a marriage is partly about the ability to meet each other's need's. when i saw my need's would never be met, i saw no reason to go counseling anymore...no point. i couldn't just say, okay, i don't really need those need's. yes, i needed them. i wasn't going to get them met, so there was no reason to try anymore. i knew i would eventually leave. fear, timing...all point's to consider. losing weight gave me incredible self-esteem, power. the final, stupid, "i don't know who this person is anymore" moment happened, i knew it was time to leave. and so i did.

i believe we stay stuck in a pattern until we understand why we are stuck and what the lesson we have to learn is to get unstuck. then we can get unstuck. self-knowledge is invaluable. "a life unexamined is not worth living."

chris, keep going counseling for yourself. keep learning about yourself. keep leading your OWN life. if cj is a part of it now, then he belong's here now. you told me something once and i think you remember what it is. listen to your heart...it's telling you there is an event horizon in your life. melody beattie say's:

an event horizon is what we see coming, before it happens. whatever it is. we can almost see it and feel it. we might even know in our head's that it's something we're going to do or try. but we're still on the edge of the experience. we haven't entered into it yet. the energy is present but we can still make a choice.

i have passed my event horizon and now am fully living the experience of that. no way i can avoid my feeling's or have it over until i am ready to learn the lesson and move on. thankfully, the older and smarter i get, the faster i learn the lesson's.

jeannie

[houghchrst]

Well dang it all Jeannie you have had way more fun than us. He cant dance a lick unless he's attempting his Magic Mike and that alone is kinda frightening and the picnic thing is a great idea. I hope you don't take my response as being snarky or anything. I hadn't meant it that way. Upon reading it back it kinda does. Sorry.

I had therapy last night and she wants to see me more often then every couple of months. Yeah havent exactly been a regular. We talked for a long time. More about my attitude and inability to trust and my need to make CJ just as miserable as I am. Went good and I feel good today. I am tired of being unhappy and I know that most of it is my own faulty wiring.

Seeing a new psych next week.

[tic chick]

chris,

no, i didn't think you were being snarky, i just thought you wanted to place too much blame on yourself. a betrayal of trust knock's you for a loop, no matter who does it. at this point in MY life, i tend to agree with pati about just living together...that's what i would do if i met a man i got serious about. plus, i have more to lose financially if i remarry than if i stay unmarried. i'm not even dating though, so i'm not going to think about that seriously until it is serious. it seem's if you're not married, you have more option's if thing's go bad in a relationship. when you're married and there is a betrayal of trust, you either split or resolve it, but thing's are never quite the same anyway. yes, betrayal hurt's even when you're not married and thing's aren't right for a while after that, but it doesn't usually have to be resolved with lawyer's, splitting of asset's, court's and too much money.

pati, i hope the doctor gave you some good new's today .

jeannie

[Buttons2]

stop being so mean to yourself Chris. you deserve to be hsappy ya know! wishing you the very best & soon. Pati

[Jo6]

Poor Queenie, don't ever slip and leave yourself open just so all of us (older) ladies can walk right in and tell you what to do.

I suppose ladies is debatable ,eh? Well,had my children been just a tad older Ken and I would have opted to just live together. Actually Jon was the youngest, just 9 years old. That was the only drawback. Ken sure was bra v e to take on me and 4 kids, only 1 pre-teen.

The 3 older kids were angry because we didn't come to school, get them so they could be a part of things. Didn't know they would care to go to the court
house, so strike 1 from the 3 oldest.

Jon,the youngest demanded to ,,,,,,,,,,,,to be continued

Soon! Jo.

[Jo6]

OK, I continue. We were so poor at the moment it was foolish to pay rent, electricity, water, ect. on 2 apartments so we decided to just combine the 2.

Wedding night! We were getting ready to go to bed, all of us when baby Jon demanded to see the marriage liscence!! I thought he was joking, but no, no joke to him! So, I dragged the paper out, all the other kids were laughing and Ken and I didn't have a clue why this "show of manhood?" At 9 yrs. old? lol

He took forever to stop "reading"it. So, thought we were cleared to go to bed, together. Everybody settled in, was just about asleep when we heard a tiny knock at the bed room door. I said come in, this meek little voice sad mommie, I have a tummy ache. So, up comes mommie we streaked to the bathroom.

That is where Jon and I spent my wedding night!! lol Maybe that was his way of telling us he too was mad cause we didn't gather them all up and let them go to the court house with us too. lol lol

Christina, I don't think you would have that problem, but I thought we were doing what was right for the kids, all of them. As it turned out all the kids tell people Ken is their father if its someone they had not introduced us to. They have always wanted us to go with them when they wanted to go get pizza, ball-games and every where else they went. It made us feel good because they always wanted to include us, where ever they went.

I said all of that just to say way back in the olden days I didn't think I would ever consider just living with someone, but that is what I tell my son that has been married and divorced. 3 times already.

Once we had Jon's permission I think he would have been happy even if we hadn't got married.So, lil queenie, you have my permission to do what ever you want to do. Just don't do things just because others want or expect you to do anything.

I love you dearly and I want you to be happy. Please don't put yourself down so much. You are a good Mother, a good partner, a good in-law and a good sister. If I left any one out, just add it to the list!

all my love, big queenie s