Does anyone know anything about ADHD?

[agate]

I'm trying to find out more about attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) as my grandson has been diagnosed with it and has just started on Adderall. He turned 6 only a month ago, and Adderall isn't prescribed for anyone under 6. To me he seems like a normal kid, maybe with some emotional meltdowns now and then but most kids his age are uneven and sometimes impulsive. I guess he's been too much of a problem in kindergarten, though, and has had to be sent home quite a few times.

I have problems with the way kindergarten operates nowadays but I just haven't moved with the times. In my day (and my children's) kindergarten was mainly a play time, very much like nursery school, but now it's more like first grade. However, the kindergarten isn't going to change its ways, and apparently it suits the other kids. And ADHD is a genuine, treatable disorder, according to what little I know. (I just read a book about it by an authority on it.)

I'd appreciate any information from anyone here.

[flatcap]

Sorry to say, but I really don't know anything about ADHD. I have been diagnosed with ADD, but I was told it often comes with Asperger's. I am not being treated for it, per se. I don't know if there is a treatment for it. If there is, I am already taking enough meds. I don't want another, particularly not one that is psychoactive.

Personally, I would worry about anyone under the age of 21 or so taking Adderall. I think they are all too quick these days to prescribe those kind of meds for young children. Back in my day, it was all but unheard of. I think what was usually done, giving the necessary attention to the child, is more appropriate. I guess no one has the time anymore. Or maybe I haven't moved on with the times, either.

I wonder if your grandson is somewhere on the autism spectrum? It sounds to me like he might be.

[agate]

I am indeed very concerned and had been hoping all along that they wouldn't go this route. But I've had to realize that I'm old enough to have not kept up with important developments and that maybe the people who study these matters in child development have found out that children whose mother (or parent?) was addicted to some substances are more apt to turn up with certain brain-wiring issues and that these issues can miraculously be kept under control with some drugs.

That seems to be what has happened with ADHD. My grandson was adopted at birth but it was known that the birth mother had some addiction problems. I can't recall just what she was addicted to (maybe meth?) but I'm going to try to refresh my memory. Her addiction issues may still be present--not much is known about her though there have been a few contacts.

He seems OK among family and friends (to me, anyway), but the school has been having serious issues. He gets out of control in the classroom.

For a long time I thought he was just a child who wasn't quite ready for "real" school yet, and this school's kindergarten is far more like real school than any kindergarten I've known. They have regular writing and counting tasks, even doing simple sums.

When I think it's just a case of a school demanding too much, I always have to come to terms with what I've heard about the addicted birth mom and about this disorder.

I need to try to stay out of my son's life as they are overloaded with responsibilities. So I'm leaving it up to them and hoping for the best. I figure they know far better than I do just how difficult their son is and they're sensible people who will back off from any course of action that looks harmful. But I intend to find out more about this disorder.

I don't know about whether he could be autistic. I have trouble seeing him as child with any disorder but then I'm biased--and I don't see him in school. I see a lot of photos and videos though, and he's always behaving normally, taking part in group activities, often smiling.

I just hope the doctor who prescribed Adderall isn't one of those busy doctors who whip off an rx without thinking much about the patient and the situation.

[Prot]

Children/teenagers with it tend to under perform academically until they get put on appropriate medication.

[flatcap]

Not to argue, but it has also been shown that drugging children/teenagers can have deleterious effects on their mental development, meaning psychoactive drugs. Drugs like alcohol mainly come to mind, but I have little doubt the same can be said of psychoactive Rx medications. I am convinced that is not the way to go. I am convinced it isn't good for them in the long run. At the very least, I don't think they really have any idea what the drugs are doing to children, and as long as they don't, they should not be giving them strong medications of that type. The long-term consequences are not known, much less taken into account.

[agate]

I'd have been entirely in agreement with you, flatcap, until I read the book by a man who's had over 30 years of experience treating children with ADHD. The experts may have found out something about chemical imbalances in the brain that occur in some children--and about drugs that just might help these children to be more focused.

I just don't know. This child's birth mother had problems with meth and alcohol (and maybe other drugs--not much information has been forthcoming other than the meth and the alcohol). Those two drugs are known to cause problems for some children just because the mom took them during pregnancy.

I'm hoping to find out more. I've read conflicting reports on whether drugs like Adderall help or harm children. I've read that taking such drugs can predispose a child to drug addiction later, but I've also read that children with ADHD who don't take such drugs are MORE inclined to have an addiction problem later.

With so many opposing views, maybe the parents of such a child just have to go with their best instincts.

[flatcap]

That is perhaps true, but what other choices do parents have but to go on instinct? With all the conflicting reports, it must be hard to decide based on those alone. Then, in most if not all cases, doctors will reach for the Rx 'solution' to all problems straight away. Since that is how they tend to look at all things medical, people, including parents, jump at the Rx route because their doctors essentially advocate for the use of Adderall and similar drugs, regardless of the child's age. They might as well be working for the pharma companies, which in some ways they are.

Adults face the same thing: Pills don't solve all medical problems, but that is what you are given — often all you are given. Now, too, you are supposed to do your own research online, so I would then like to ask, 'What do they think I am? A doctor?' If I were a doctor, I likely wouldn't have to see them in the first place. My training would tell me what to do. I have no such training. It sometimes seem like doctors think you do. In the end, they drop it all in your lap.

To give them due credit, I should say I recently inquired to my providers about Co Q10 supplementation for MS fatigue and depression. I got responses from two out of three of them. I wanted to be sure Co Q10 would not interact or interfere with any of the meds they have me on. Ironically, it was my neuro who had nothing to say about it. Although he has said he would always reply to emails, I wonder if he even bothers to read them.

I wish you good fortune in your own research. Your grandson is lucky to have you in his corner.

[agate]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply--and the compliment. The grandson has a fairly substantial cheering section--including the birth mother, who still seems to have an interest even though she's remarried and had another child by now. The birth father died (only in his 20s) a couple of years ago.

Yes, all any of us really has to go on is our instinct. What prompted my concern was my feeling that many people (maybe most people) tend to be very meek and accepting when it comes to doctors, reluctant to question them. It's an easy trap to fall into, and I've been there myself.

The doctor says I should do this and I don't much want to but he's/she's the Doctor and knows so much more than I do and is an established expert, and after all this is my body we're talking about, and this Doctor is being paid handsomely for expert opinions, and therefore I should just do as I'm told.

I know nothing about this pediatrician but find it comforting to know that the grandson has had the same doctor for long enough for the doctor to have made some observations and to have a record of them.

I'm hoping that he might just be a case of a child who isn't quite ready to settle down to a task for long who happens to be in a kindergarten where the children are expected to settle down to tasks, and probably most kindergartens are doing that now. I think they may be making a mistake but that's just based on my experience with kindergartens and with my memory of myself at that age. I was mainly about play and may not have realized that school was fairly serious until towards the end of 1st grade. And I think most of the other kids were like that too.

But kids do develop faster nowadays, and kindergartens must be keeping up with the times. This particular kid, with several risk factors for ADHD, just might have some problems until more time has passed. I'm hoping he can go off the Adderall one of these days but at least his parents seem to have figured out a way of getting him to swallow the pill.

Too many doctors do seem too eager to whip out that prescription pad--I've noticed that too. I'm really hoping that this doctor isn't one of them. The grandson goes back to the doctor in 3 weeks to see how he's doing, and so at least this process is being monitored.

Do doctors tend to own stock in drug companies? I've heard that drug companies are one of the best investments a person can make.

[flatcap]

It's always a sad tale when someone dies so young. I don't know what to say, except that I hope your grandson's birth father didn't suffer.

It sounds like his birth mother has found some peace and clarity. If she is in recovery, I hope she has the support she needs to stay clean and sober. Unless she is stronger than most people, she will need it.

They do say kids develop faster these days, but I still think kindergarten should be a place of sheltered freedom to explore the wonders of the world without the pressures that come with dedicated classwork. For example, as much as I believe mathematics is the language of science, I feel that there is plenty of time ahead of a five-year-old to be immersed in such subjects. Doing sums and such can wait. Kindergarten teachers should be stewards, not task masters in my opinion. The role of kindergarten teachers should be to build for students guard rails as they begin to navigate life among their peers and with adults who are not part of their family. Kindergarten teachers should support students, not challenge them. That can come later in first and second grade. Kindergarten should be a place to build a foundation for that and not much more.

It is good to know that your grandson is being relatively closely monitored by his physician. It would be a crime if he were not and serious problems arose with his medication. Unless his adoptive parents are both well-grounded and self-educated, they will need the support of a good physician beyond them simply writing a prescription.

I don't know how many physicians invest in the pharma companies or how much those who do. I do know many go on junkets to conferences to tout this medication or that. I don't know whether they are directly compensated by the pharma companies. I imagine their travel costs are paid, but that only makes sense. I don't know if many medical practice firms would support their attendance at conferences beyond compensating them for their time. Perhaps providers are given more by the pharma companies they essentially advertise.

[agate]

There's been quite a lot of debate about the extent to which doctors are in the pocket of the drug companies. A while back there was a Website, possibly posted here, where a person could look up a doctor's name and find out how much compensation that doctor had received in a given year from any drug company. For appearances at drug-company sponsored events they get "honoraria," a fancy name for compensation.

When the MS drugs were newer, there was considerable discussion of the inducements the drug companies were offering, both to patients and doctors.

Years ago anyone with MS was apt to receive quite a number of invitations to a free dinner at some fancy local establishment, accompanied by a sales talk from whatever drug company was sponsoring the event. Many went to these--if only for the free food.

The drug companies work very diligently at promoting their remedies.

If I were a doctor and had money to invest, I think I'd be inclined to have stocks in Big Pharma. I'd probably become very rich.

[Prot]

I have come across more than a few people who were underperforming academically due to untreated ADHD . Their academic performance and IQ score tested after Ritalin/other such meds started to work improved significantly.

[flatcap]

Ritalin is an interesting drug. My understanding is that it is a stimulant.

I have long had trouble with MS fatigue, and after trying everything else within reason, my doctor put me on Ritalin. I remember the pharmacist saying something like, "Oh, he's bringing out the big guns now." I thought it was counter-intuitive, but the pharmacist told me it works on adults for fatigue. So, I tried Ritalin for some time, but it didn't work for me. I stopped it and have had to live with persistent and often overwhelming fatigue ever since.

I am now looking at trying Coenzyme Q10 supplementation for my fatigue. I found a few references that stated CoQ10 (500 mg/day) was good for treating it. One said it can also help with depression, which, regrettably, I also have a lot of trouble with.

I haven't started taking CoQ10 yet. When I do, I will report back, probably in one of the chit-chat threads, and let everyone know how things work out.

Wish me luck.



ETA: Reference articles.

"Coenzyme Q10 as a treatment for fatigue and depression in multiple sclerosis patients: A double blind randomized clinical trial" | PubMed

Only registered and activated users can see links., Click Here To Register...

"Effectiveness of Coenzyme Q10 Supplementation for Reducing Fatigue: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials" | National Library of Medicine

Only registered and activated users can see links., Click Here To Register...

[agate]

Sounds as if CoQ-10 is worth a try, do you think?

I wonder how fatigue and/or depression are measured though. Wouldn't those symptoms have to be self-reported and wouldn't that kind of reporting be apt to be too subjective?

There may be ways of measuring MS fatigue. I believe that the 25-foot walking test may be one way, the idea being that MS fatigue sets in after a certain length of time spent exerting muscles.

This is the test:

Only registered and activated users can see links., Click Here To Register...

One person's fatigue isn't necessarily another person's fatigue. I'd have problems trusting a medicine based on self-reports that it helped people. But I'm really timid about starting any med or supplement.

[flatcap]

I don't know how objective assessments of depression or fatigue can be. I have only subjectively self-reported reported mine. They are, however, real.

I am also careful about meds and supplements. I asked my providers about CoQ10 to see if they thought it might be a problem, especially with respect to the meds they have me on. They said it would be OK for me. It's not so much of a medication as it is a supplement. It is known that some people have a CoQ10 deficiency.

I haven't had any blood test for that. My PCP hasn't ordered one. I'm not worried, though: 500 mg/day CoQ10 is not an overdose.

I should add that quite a lot of modern medicine is experiential. At least half of the time, they will admit they don't really know exactly what a given medication is doing in your body. Such is said in print on those forms that describe a medication and what it hypothetically does. And they very often do not know exactly the causes of side effects. At the root of things, they can only go on self-reporting a lot of the time for both side effects and the direct effects of a given medication. There is no objective test in many, many cases.

[flatcap]

Sounds as if CoQ-10 is worth a try, do you think?

I wonder how fatigue and/or depression are measured though. Wouldn't those symptoms have to be self-reported and wouldn't that kind of reporting be apt to be too subjective?

Yes, I am going to try CoQ10. I will let everyone know how things turn out.

On self-reporting depression, one of my providers has me fill out a PHQ-9 Patient Depression Questionnaire every time I see her. That 'test' is not objective, obviously, but it is something.