May chitchat

[agate]

I don't expect to win as things are heavily weighted in favour of medical professionals ,who can be very good at dishonestly closing ranks.

They also are prosperous enough to be able to afford pricey lawyers, as many as needed. I think I've noticed that in law, the person who can afford the priciest lawyers often wins. Maybe it's just another instance of "You get what you pay for."

I hope you will get somewhere with your efforts. You certainly deserve compensation for that terrible oversight on the part of the medical profession.

[Virginia]

Tim, I had also missed anything about a claim being made regarding your falls. It would make me quite anxious to have to do a video about it, but just remember your daughter will be right there to help you should you need her. You might be surprised to find that they rule in your favor. Wouldn't that be nice? However I tend to agree with you that the medical community does stick together and rarely will one doctor go against another. I hope you get a favorable ruling. I can also understand what you are saying about being misdiagnosed. It makes a lot of sense to me. I too was treated very poorly when complaining of things that turned out to be Multiple Sclerosis. When my then PCP found out I suffered from MS he almost immediately resigned me as a patient even though he had been my PCP for 25 years.

Agate, the salad I had from Chick-fil-A consist of lettuce, tomatoes, hard boiled eggs, corn, bacon bits topped with chicken nuggets and I got honey mustard dressing on the side.

The new doctor stayed with me for probably 45 minutes. He wore me out. We went back to the hormones that gave me so much trouble two doctors ago. We went round and round. I have been on them for at least 45 years. When the PCP who resigned me cut them half is when I started having such a bad time with my MS that I took myself to a neurologist. That was when I found out what was wrong with me, due to cutting them in half. This doctor is nice but goes strictly by the book without using any common sense.

My B/P was quite high. It is very good here at home, so he told me to bring my meter into the office and take it there and compare it to theirs. This I definitely agree with and plan to do. He questioned me about how I take it, how I sit and so on.

My potassium is just within normal range which is good since it had been low. I will continue taking the pills for that. My sodium was just in the normal range for the first time in several years which is good. We discussed my bone density which is not good though I have not been for a test. Somehow he could tell. I wasn't surprised that he says it is not good given the now sedentary life I live. Also, I am extremely small boned and have been all my life. He showed me the exercise to do to add weight bearing to my regimen. He stood on one foot while slightly raising the other leg. He cautioned me to hold on to my counter.

I think the most exhausting thing was about the harmones. He just kept on and on. The nurse had commented on how pretty my skin is and he made the comment that a lot of time women wanted to take hormones thinking it would make them have pretty skin. I let the comment go, but I would like to have told him that I wasn't stupid enough to care at my age or that my Grandmother was laying in a nursing home in her 80s with people commenting on what pretty skin she had. Also the last time I saw my aunt alive she was 97 and I told her how good her skin looked. It didn't mean either of them looked 30 or 40 years old. Their skin just looked good.

I have another UTI and will start antibiotics tomorrow.

I went to the grocery store after leaving him, so today I am very tired and feel drug out. It takes at least two days to get over an outing. But I did cook this evening.

[agate]

The new doctor might work out well, do you think? Except for nattering on about the hormones, he was doing pretty well--fine-tuning your BP technique and being concerned about bone density. Good that he's watching the potassium too! I mentioned before that I have to be really careful about potassium as it tends to be low. I can tell when it's getting low--I have muscle cramping episodes and palpitations. Worse things can happen if it would go even lower, as I understand it.

I'm curious about how that doctor terminated you. I've heard of doctors doing that but wondered how they would go about it. What I'm picturing is the patient calling to schedule an appointment and being told by the person on the phone, "You're no longer Dr. X's patient." That seems unbelievably chilly to me, and I can't imagine that really happening but I've heard of a couple of instances that were almost that bad.

Why is that allowed, I wonder? If a doctor agrees to take you on as a patient in the first place, why aren't you that doctor's patient unless the doctor moves away or dies, or you choose to leave on your own initiative?

[Prot]

Thank you both. I'm impressed by the way you both deal with decidedly more than minor health problems.

[agate]

What a nice compliment, Tim. MS is a stern taskmaster, no doubt about it.

[Virginia]

Thank you Tim, we have both had to deal with MS for decades. It is very tiresome and difficult at times, but at least we are both here and can still do a few things that bring us pleasure. Mine is mostly reading. Agate is smart and does more exercising and I think walking around where she lives. She is fortunate to be all on one level, as are you. I don't get out much because I have steps down my front and back so I can't get my rolator in and out. I don't need it in the house. I am still able to drive short distances for which I am grateful.

Agate, this is the way I was resigned by my long time PCP. By the way, my husband was also his patient for 13 years until he died. I was having things wrong with me all along, even when my husband was alive. I would go and report things such as severe tightness in thighs. It was hard for me to try to walk and my husband told me to lay on the couch in the den. I was a walker back then and we lived in a hilly community. One time I was going up a hill and couldn't get up it. This was before cellphones and I had no way to let anyone know I was in trouble. It took me a long time to get home. Again my husband told me I needed to talk to the doctor so I did. I remember standing up one time in front of him and telling him I knew I was standing still, but it felt like my body was swaying like I had just gotten off a boat. Then some years later the tingling and pins and needles started in my feet and occasionally in my hands and arms. On and on it went. I was stumbling sometime and once I veered off to the left toward the wall while walking down a hall where I worked. Another time I went to wash my hands in an upscale restaurant. I didn't know what was happening when all of a sudden I fell on the floor. I got up as quickly as I could. I was afraid someone would come in and think I was drinking. I was with two ladies who worked with me. When I got back to the table I told them what had happened. They got me safely home.

There was so much going on in my body I can't remember it. One time the doctor gave me a rx for amitriptyline. I said please don't do this I am not depressed. He said "you listen to me and do what I say". I waited until Friday night to take it and I couldn't get up until the following afternoon. My husband told me not to ever take another one of those pills. He said besides that I was not depressed that he would know if I was. Another time the doctor sent me to a psychiatrist. When I got ready to leave the psychiatrist I asked if I was supposed to make another appointment. He said Virginia you don't need me. If you ever do I will be here. Once the PCP told me he thought it was a cyclical thing with me. He said every six months to a year I came in with some vague complaint. Another time he told me there couldn't be anything wrong with me that I was the perfect picture of health.

Finally, with the pins and needles and numbness that set in a good friend and I decided I needed a neurologist. I made an appointment with one, just the first one I could get into see. He did a nerve conduction test and said I had the nerves of a 39 year old. I was far older. My friend was relaying all this to her son. He said I did need a neurologist, but that I needed the best I could get and that in his opinion he told her who that was. I got in to see that doctor and went just complaining of the numbness and pins and needles. I had not put it all together. He did an examination and told me my left leg as well as my left arm was not doing what I wanted it to. He put his hand at the back of my neck and said you might just have a pinched nerve back here. He asked me to go for an MRI which I did. He called me on the phone and told me he didn't like doing this over the phone, but in the interest of time he had to tell me that I had a leison that was consistent with MS. He quickly sent me for more MRIs and every other test you could name. He finally said I know you have MS, but I want one more thing and that was a lumbar puncture. I had that done and he formally diagnosed me.

My friend told me that the PCP needed to know and that I should call and tell him. So, I called and told him I had been diagnosed with MS and told him the Doctor. I asked him if he knew of anything in my records. He told me he would take them home over the weekend and call me Monday. I never got a call or heard from him again. A couple of months later I received a letter telling me he was cutting back on his practice and would no longer be seeing me. The letter stated that unfortunately none of the other doctors in that practice were taking new patients. It also said that I would be seen for 30 days on an emergency basis only and after that not at all. After all those years it was quite shocking. I had two friends who saw the same doctor. They had been there 10 years or more less time than I had. You don't resign one of your patients who has been there almost from the time you started your practice, but he did.

My neurologist couldn't hide his anger. He said you mean in that big practice no one could take you as a patient. I told him that was what the letter said. And that is how your long time doctor and your husband's doctor resigns you.

[agate]

I'd say that you were lucky he terminated you. But what a way to do it, and what a thing to do. All along he was dismissing your symptoms and should have been referring you to a neurologist. Maybe he was a great doctor for your husband but he certainly wasn't treating you fairly or objectively.

I've often heard that some male doctors have the notion that female patients are inclined to be "hysterical," reporting symptoms that are "really all in their head." They get referred to psychiatrists or told that their symptoms don't mean anything. Actually quite a few of them turn out to have real physical conditions, often neurological ones, and the doctors just don't want to deal with that idea, apparently.

Sounds as if that may be what happened to you. Years and years when you still had confidence in that doctor and looked to him for help but he wasn't there for you. I hate to say how many people have told of similar experiences with doctors. I like to think that the younger doctors coming along now don't share this idea but I'm not sure that's true.

[Virginia]

Yes Agate, I later realized he was very ego driven. He absolutely could not take being wrong and when he saw me walking in heels to go to work and dressing nice he made up his mind and that was the end for him.

My neurologist told me about a lady doctor who might take me as a patient. He said he didn't know anything about her but he had heard she was taking new patients. I started with her and thought she was great. I couldn't have been happier with my PCP. She would always listen to your views and believed in getting the patient's input. She was in her 40s and didn't just take a break she actually gave up her license to practice. I had turned 65 by then so I was on Medicare and couldn't find a practice that would take me. That's how I ended up where I am. As a side note my neurologist sent his wife to the lady doctor I liked and told me he did it based on my recommendation. He said his wife had said the same thing I did almost word for word.

[agate]

She gave up her license to practice for some good reason? I've heard that some medical professionals are leaving their occupations due to the strain COVID put on them --that wasn't her reason?

[agate]

I learned something today. An acquaintance is thinking about possibly moving into a retirement community some day and told me about one that is under consideration. Just to be put on the wait list she'd need to pay $3,000! If she couldn't move there for some reason, it would be entirely refunded. If she just decided she didn't want to move there, she'd get most of it back but she'd lose $300. In other words, she's floating a loan (interest-free) to the retirement community for however long it would take for her name to come up on the wait list, and she's probably going to part with $300 just for the privilege of being on that wait list.

If she decides to move there when her name comes up, the $3,000 will be applied to the buy-in fee. I don't know what the buy-in fee amounts to but I'm sure it's not exactly cheap.

This is for a cottage with a total of about 800-1000 square feet of living space.

She tells me that this upfront fee just to be on a wait list isn't unusual. I just never looked into that type of housing at all and so didn't know. But gee whiz! People are making fortunes in the senior-housing industry, or what?

[Virginia]

Agate, your acquaintance is telling you the truth. What they are normally charging here is an amount equal to the first month's rent as a deposit, the first month's rent and the last month's rent - so an amount equal to 3 months rent. So it depends on how expensive the places are, but fairly nice ones usually are around $4600 to $5000 per month. Of course the really nice ones go on up. This includes meals. For an average one here it would be $12,000 to $15,000 move in fee. They go up every year after you move in.

Then there are the really expensive ones that charge a buy in fee of $7 to $12 thousand dollars just to buy in. This is not the monthly rent. This is just to put your name on the list to get in. This is usually non-refundable. I have heard of some that cost $50 to $60 thousand to put your name on the list, and most of them have a waiting list. So there are people who have a lot of money. Some sell really expensive homes and use the money to live in these retirement homes.

The doctor who gave up her license to practice medicine did so quite a while before COVID. She told me it was the paperwork, taxes and dealing with having to train another nurse. She had a really good one who was retiring. She said that was the final straw. I just couldn't understand why she didn't just take a break from practicing medicine rather than give up her license. Neither could my neurologist.

[agate]

That is astounding--the prices that are being charged and that people are willing to pay. Aging people are really very desperate for help, which they're not getting unless they're willing and able to pay dearly for. This is such a sad situation. Quite a few of these people may not need any help just now but they are afraid that they will need it soon, and they want to plan ahead--so they get on a waiting list even if it costs them a small fortune.

Maybe your doctor who closed her practice just had a sudden realization that she wasn't cut out to be a doctor? I've heard of this happening. Otherwise as you say, wouldn't she have taken a break?

People have these sudden changes. I once knew a young man who was a diligent student of medieval history. Then he decided he wanted to make money, and so he went into insurance. That lasted for a few years but he did go back to the medieval history and became a professor. That's quite a drastic change of occupation but it's not the only one I've heard of.

[Prot]

That re the senior housing is pure,totally immoral,greed.

[agate]

Followup to the story about the friend applying for a slot on the wait list and having to pay $3000 for the "privilege" of being on that wait list: I went to the Website for another local retirement community--one I've often been through while on my way to the audiologist. It's a fairly vast complex of housing that takes up several blocks. I was trying to find out how they handled the sign-up fees and the wait lists.

Oddly enough, there's no way to find that out on the Website. It puts you through a few questions about whether you're asking for yourself or for someone else and how soon you'd like to secure a place to live. Then it wants your e-mail address AND your phone number. You can't get past that screen unless you provide a phone number.

Since I don't want a lot of calls that are just sales pitches for that facility, I wasn't willing to go any farther with their questionnaire. But if I had, someone would have called me, no doubt, and I could have found out at that time.

But why shouldn't that information be more readily available?

My guess is that they're eager to talk you into choosing them, and they've found that they can warm people up to the idea of spending all that money only by a carefully orchestrated phone conversation.

[Virginia]

Agate, here most of these places called retirement homes, you have to go in and go through the places and fill out an application. I get so many brochures and invitations all the time that they are having open house and inviting people to have brunch or join in some activity. Then when you get there I am told you sign in. Then if you are at all interested you fill out the paperwork which gives your monthly income plus other assets. I am not sure what the amount of money is based on.

I have only been in one of the retirement homes and that was to visit a friend. She told me some of how much it cost. She said they charge for every little extra thing. She was a neighbor and she told me how much she paid the first month to get in. She was getting forgetful and another neighbor and I actually went to the retirement home to make sure they had not overcharged her. They had not. It was actually that much.

I then visited her in her apartment after she moved in. She had a small one bedroom. She was there for a number of years and said she liked it. That place has a reputation of serving excellent food.

Tim you are 100% correct in saying it is greed, but if an elderly person is alone without family what are they going to do?
And then there are some who fall through the cracks. Their income is too much to qualify for a lower rent place and not enough to pay for one of these places. Also, even if a person can qualify to get in a place like I am talking about if by chance they run out of money then what do they do. I have had this discussion with friends many times.