pushing it

[nuthatch]

Can't say I understand her motivation. Hope she isn't doing damage to herself. Scares me to hear her begging for someone to help her as she is carried off the track limp as a soggy noodle. I've been that overheated before, where you lose it and are not sure you can make it (survive) without fast help. No race is worth that to me, but that's just me. My reaction is to want to kick her coach for not having more sense than she has. Oh, but the glory of the win is . . . a mentality that I just can't relate to.

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[Lazarus]

When I go out every day to crawl my farm and pick crops I can reach, it is a glorious win in a race I have created. Coming to the end of a row of beans, I can feel myself losing control but I think...maybe there is enough left to finish this one row.
And I overdo it...and I love that. After I have recovered!

We have lots of relatives and friends who are always shaking their heads at us...perplexed that we push ourselves.
But that is the thrill of being alive. Push harder I say!

That coach was a perfect partner for her. I thought.

[Howie]

That's me mowing the grass. I do have to stop and sit down for a few minutes, rest, then go at it a while longer, giving myself pep talks to keep going until it gets done.

[Pegakafarmgirl]

I never give up. there are days I want to pack in all end, and have a pity party, but all in all, what good would it do,,.

[agate]

I never give up. there are days I want to pack in all end, and have a pity party, but all in all, what good would it do,,.

Exactly! Pity parties take time and energy. Feeling too sad about anything wears me out.

[SuzE-Q]

I suspect if she reaches a point where she's unable to run or undertake physical activity, she'll probably look back fondly at these times when she pushed herself and gave it every last ounce of energy that she had. This may be as close to a "normal" life as she'll come, where she didn't have to "baby" herself.

I think marathoners or supermarathoners reach this point too, outside of having an underlying condition. As long as it's not harming her MS trajectory or her psyche...

[nuthatch]

I believe pushing yourself is great, but knowing how far is very important, especially when going so far past your own physical limits that you're putting yourself in danger of actually dying right there on the spot. Wonder how the coach or her parents would feel if she actually DID expire right there at the finish line before someone could save her?

As a culture, to make ourselves feel better, we'd would say she died doing what she wanted to do. When in actuality, she probably would not have taken it that far if she had known it very possibly could end her entire life, not to mention that her family and beloved coach might be forever tormented with the feeling that they were somewhat responsible by condoning the behavior that resulted in such tragedy. After all, she is just a kid, what does she know about the dangers of MS overexertion?
Would like to hear what a doctor who is knowldegable in the subject of MS and overheating has to say about this subject. I have never seen it addressed.
For self preservation, you need to heed what your body is telling you, whether you have MS or not. Pushing yourself to a certain point where you feel yourself starting to lose it, resting a bit to cool off, then giving it a go again to accomplish a goal you've set for yourself makes perfect sense. Howie has it right! It's something all of us with MS have to do. Life is not all about competition. This thread is NOT about a "pity party" and I'm surprised that subject is even mentioned here!

[SuzE-Q]

I agree that a doctor's input would have been a valuable part of this story as to whether it is jeopardizing her health. I think too turning her direction towards endeavors more within her capabilities that might still challenge her would be a good route.

I also don't think not being able to do something is having a "pity party"....I simply can't do more, I'm physically incapable. I could push myself all day, and it doesn't change my inability, I can't "push" myself into more.

[Virginia]

Joan, I am with you on this. I do not think it is about having a "pity party" either. I just simply cannot see putting myself in a position of knowing that with each race I was going to be that limp and unable to move and dependent on someone else. She is begging for "help" each time. I agree that she is just a kid and doesn't realize all the ramifications of what could happen.

I push- today I had to go out and do errands and I was pushing the whole time, but there is a limit where I could not. I have to sit in the car between stops. I think what you said and what Howie is doing makes rational sense.

[SuzE-Q]

She DOES seem to recover well and quickly once she cools down. That seems to be related to muscle control of her leg function and mobility which is affected with the increased body temp and exertion of the race.

My guess too is the "I can't breathe" thing is what most runners experience, rather than anything related specifically to her MS or of any great concern. I ran competitively when I was a kid pre-MS, and I remember that feeling too. I think that sounds more worrisome than it actually is.

I doubt the school would even allow her to compete actually unless she's been medically cleared. The risk would be too great and they would have had to consider long and hard the impact on the other runners and students as well.

[nuthatch]

I have a tendency to think that most people with MS have the same kind of experiences with overheating as I do. That may not be so.

I can no longer sweat at all. My internal temp rises from minimal simple exertion, warm or humid external air (breathing it), or skin temp (sun on skin). With the slightest rise in temp, I begin to loose strength and bodily function (bladder/bowel control, vision, cognition ect.). The inability to control or coordinate movement increases in relation to the increase in internal body temperature due to any one or a combination of these causes. I can usually feel this happening and have learned that I had better acknowledge it and adjust whatever is causing it before I get to the point of complete helplessness. The scariest incidences have happened at night, awakening me from sound sleep, because my body is not self-adjusting so I become way overheated. When I awaken, my heart is pounding and I can't move a thing. Panic overcomes me and I call for my husband, begging for fast help to cool down, just like the girl in the video, only I've just been sleeping, not running a race or even dreaming! It's a terrifying helpless feeling. I fear that one day I may not wake up in time.

It is puzzling to me how this girl can run normally right up until she reaches the finish line, then collapse begging and pleading for help. I would think she would start stumbling and wobbling long before she got to the point of the total collapse and the desperateness she seems to be in when her coach catches her at the finish line. After she cools down she is wobbly and looks like she can't walk without help.

In my own experience, it's not a "mind over matter" kind of thing, no matter how much I wish it were! This video makes it appear it is.

Anyhow, my main purpose of starting this thread is to express concern for her. In searching for answers, I found this about the mechanics of heat stroke. Very informative.
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My concern is that she, her coach and her parents may be unknowingly putting her at risk for heat stroke, of which she may be more susceptible because of the MS.

[agate]

I don't think anyone takes this story as being about having a pity party. One person in this thread mentioned that she herself pushes on, no matter what, even though there are times when she thinks about having a pity party.

Apparently some runners in good health do routinely collapse at the finish line, and there's a reason why:

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Why at the finish line and not before? Maybe an adrenalin high keeps them going to the end?

This young woman is a superior runner and enjoys it. Maybe people with MS should do pretty much whatever we want, and some want to risk feeling terrible after doing something because the satisfaction we get just from doing whatever it is outweighs the price we pay.

So little is known about MS--I don't know if anyone can say for sure whether she's harming herself.

This is one very special young woman. I'm in her cheering section even though I myself can't imagine wanting to do something that is probably going to make me collapse at the end. Runners routinely put up with quite a few physical problems as a result of heavy-duty running, I think. It's part of the running culture.

It interests me that she loses all sensation in her legs long before the end of the race. She keeps on running with no sensation in her legs.

I've often wondered about what happened to me a couple of times years ago, when MS was new to me. I was out in the cold and lost all sensation in my legs--and yet I was able to board a bus or walk across a large patch of ice. I always thought that if you had no sensation in an arm or leg, you couldn't move it. Not true.

Joan (nuthatch), you mentioned sweating. For about 30 years I didn't sweat at all. Only if I had an infection with a fever, and that would be a cold sweat, with chills.

But in the last couple of years, I've started sweating again. It's really amazing and I think it's helping me in some ways. I'm still having bad reactions to even slight overheating though.

There are still times when I fling open a window and stay there gasping for a breath of cooler air or turn on a fan and just stay in front of it until I'm cooled off.

[Lazarus]

We are all correct in our thinking about Kayla. I went researching her case because I assumed she had physician approval to run. I copied the following from the article:


"Exercise is commonly recommended for M.S. patients, and Montgomery’s doctor has cleared her for racing. However, some experts worry pushing to the point of collapse could have long-term drawbacks.

“When you push to your limit, your body usually sends pain signals to warn you that you’re damaging tissues,” said Dr. Peter Calabresi, director of the Multiple Sclerosis Center at Johns Hopkins. He has not treated Montgomery.

“Pushing that limit is what endurance sports are all about. But if you can’t feel those signals and push from tingling to extreme or prolonged numbness, you could be doing damage that we won’t even know about until down the road. It’s a paradox.”

College recruitment has been another challenge, Montgomery said. When coaches called, she told them she had M.S., and they told her it was not a problem. “But then they didn’t call back,” she said.

Lipscomb University in Tennessee was an exception. She will enroll there this fall on a scholarship.

Montgomery is closing out a high school career that is consistently improving.

“I make myself do it,” she said. “I tell myself, ‘I know you’re tired and you can’t feel anything and it’s hard but you’re going to finish this.’ And then I do.”

[nuthatch]

Thanks for the article Agate. Wow, I would be very concerned about my child if she lost consciousness for 40 minutes as that article states she did! 40 seconds is one thing, 40 minutes is downright scary to me. I would be concerned about brain cells dying from lack of oxygen.
All I can say is, "to each his own". You won't see me in the stands cheering this stuff on!

[Sunshine]

When I lose all sensation, there is still a modest amount of sensory feedback that allows walking. It's pretty weird