Just wanted to say hello

[sandi1016]

Hi Guys,
I just wanted to say hi and check out these new forums of ours. :o I still have not made the decision about undergoing surgery for the third time. I suppose things are worsening , the more time that I leave things as they are but between family stuff and my not so great results the first two times, and the expected complications from the problems now in my spine, I am just not ready to deal with it all again.
I figure that each day that I don't wind up paralyzed is a good thing and I will do my best to make sure that I don't take unnecessary chances by doing things that I shouldn't.
My mother in law wound up with sciatica and it turned out that she has a fracture ( old ) in her lumbar spine. She also has osteoporosis, so I wound up helping her out and driving her to her appointments for a few weeks. Interestingly enough, I really liked her PM doctor. He was very good to her, and was so helpful, compassionate and understanding of her pain levels. If I find myself in need of a new doctor, I know exactly who I am going to see.
As for my family, we are still struggling to deal with our 18 year old, who seems to feel that she can do what she wants, and she doesn't have to answer to anyone.......she still has not managed to save any money toward a vehicle- despite working for 2 years now , and we found ourselves trying to figure out what she was going to do about getting back and forth to school since her courses this semester mean she doesn't get done until 10 pm one night and 9 pm on another. My husband has to be at work at 10 pm- so driving her to school and then picking her up wasn't going to work this semester. Then there is also the issue that her transportation is that this is her baby to rock- yet is seems that mom and dad are the only ones considering how she's going to get there. :ambivalence: The long story , made much shorter is that one of the dealerships had a sale going, so I went to see what was there. I found a car that I liked, and ultimately , decided that after 11 years of driving my van, it was time for mom to get a newer car- so we bought a Kia Sorrento- LOVE that car.......and daughter was relegated to driving mom's van if she was going to go to school.
She was told she would be responsible for the maintenence- we have always maintained our vehicles really well and the van has less than 80,000 miles on it- so it is still in really good condition. She of course, thought that mom and dad looking at vehicles meant that she was getting a car.....and I guess, she did, but not what she expected to get.
Anyway, as Mark knows, we have had issues with our oldest, entitlement mostly and lately she has gotten into a relationship that we do not approve of, and so she has taken to lying about where she is, who she is with , and coming in after our homes curfew......she has also become very disrespectful- in fact, she called her father a not nice name and then when I told her that if she continued to not be home when she said she would be, she wouldn't be driving my van again. She then threw the keys at me, and told me that I would be driving her to work and school. When I told her that that wouldn't be happening, she called me a foul name and then her sister one. That was the end of the line for me and I told her that if she can't be respectful to her father and I, and her siblings and can't follow the rules in this house, then she could leave. And she did.
She is currently staying with my sister , and she has only talked to her father twice in the three weeks since all of this happened. We can not figure out why she is acting the way she is, she wasn't brought up this way and we don't spoil our kids, but this behavior of hers is not something that she learned at home and only seems to have escalated since this new relationship started. She seems to think that no matter what we think, she can do what she wants. She can, when she is living on her own, supporting herself, paying her own bills and living under the roof she pays for.....but while she lives here, we expect her to follow the same rules that we have always had, for all of our children, and to be honest, trustworthy and respectful to us and to her siblings.
No one told me that being a parent was easy and there is so much more to this situation than what I have put down here.......I never thought that I would ever find myself in this position, never dreamed it was even possible. But I felt then and still do , that she put herself in it, and she needs to do some growing up , and learn some appreciation for all that her dad and I have done for her. Until then, she needs to figure it out.
Anyway, I didn't mean to dump all of this here.....I really did just want to say hi and to check in with everyone.
Mark, how are you? I have been trying to figure out these new forums and I must say , while I like them, they are a bit confusing to use......
Sandi

[Mark N]

Sandi, it is good to see you posting with the new set up. It is no wonder you are having a tough time deciding on this surgery with all you have gone through with your previous surgical experiences. You have to reach a point where you wonder if there is any chance at things getting better yet a new surgery brings hope that your physical condition will get better.

Sorry to hear about your daughter's attitude but you saw it coming early on with her once your spinal issues hit. I will PM you with more. You are right that parenting isn't easy especially when they become teenagers. They want to be their own person but often aren't ready to step out on their own because it can be a scary thing to be on your own.

[puddykat]

Hi Sandi,
Sorry to hear that you might have to go through surgery again. Hoping everything works out great for you.

I'm 65 and kids sure have changed, how I was raised, how I raised mine......and this is in no way offense to you. Nowadays all kids don't want to work for anything but they want everything 'now', no thought of where it's coming from/who's paying for it. Then they are drawn to guys that look like they belong to a gang, heck I remember my sis, who was 8 yrs older, riding the back of a motorcycle with her guy; my dad had fits. I was drawn to the same type. Must be in female genes<G> My 2 girls had part time jobs at 16, saved $$ to buy vehicles, then SO taught them how to change oil, tires etc. They also had chores around the house, never heard sass from them....well a couple of times.

No child at 18 likes to be told what to do, altho I do agree with you, she's living in your house, your rules. Only problem now is she might have some place to run? To boyfriends apartment/house? Don't know if he's living alone?

I'dsuggest sitting down with her, mom/daughter without father, having a nice talk, no shouting. What does she want out of life...l Guess you have to be careful, not to push her away, or you might be a Grandma before your time......Be proud of her for what she's accomplished in life so far and let her know it....leave boyfriend out of discussion.......just my 2 cents. Good luck with your surgery hon hugs, kat

[Melanie]

Ya know what you need? You need a big ole ((((HUG))))!!!! And then you need to give yourself a break. 18 is a tough time because legally they are adults but sadly most of them are mentally nowhere near that! I honestly am surprised my parents let me live through my teens. Just keep reminding yourself that you did the best you could with the information and abilities you had at the time! What's going on with her is NOT a reflection of you. And someday maybe she will hug you and say, "Thanks Mom, for not killing me all those years ago." I know I did it to my mom and dad.

(((HUGS)))

[sandi1016]

Thanks Mark. There is a lot more to the story with my daughter but it's far too much to go into here.....I just hope that she figures out that she can not be disrespectful to people and expect that they are going to put up with it or worse yet, have to. She would never consider talking to anyone else that way, and for her to choose to be so disrespectful in our home , to us, is just more than any parent should put up with . We've never given our kids everything that they wanted, but what they needed they got. And the car thing, she's had almost three years now to even save part of the money toward one.....but instead, she goes shopping, and doesn't even worry about transportation concerns figuring that mom or dad will drive her.....we've certainly made mistakes as parents, and I don't want to portray her as a horrible kid, because she is far from that. She is wonderful 90+ percent of the time, then there is that other 10 percent that she feels that she can be horribly rotten to those of us in her family.....Why? I don't know. I wish that I did.
Ah , there is nothing that I can do about it now, I hope that she comes to some realizations. She isn't getting away with all that she thought living with my sister. Her and her husband have two sons, one profoundly disabled, but I am told that she comes in , does her homework, goes to work and comes back. The idea of staying out as late as she wants, or leaving food in the bedroom, or a mess all over the house, she doesn't get away with.....so that's good.
We told her that she and dad and I need to sit down and talk, and she was told that if she chooses to return home , we expect her to follow the rules, stay in touch with us, let us know if you leave one place to go to another, who she is with, and what time she plans on returning home- nothing too horribly bad for an 18 year old, but she is driving my car, and we need to know where she is, in the event something happens or she doesn't make it home one night so that we at least have a starting point.....
The biggest issue is the swearing at us, and calling us names- we never allowed that and won't now either. We have never called her a dirty name and I see now reason that her father and I should be subjected to it either.
As far as surgery for me goes, the big problem that is standing in the way is that the dura appears to be stuck to the vertebre at three levels, and the problems with a tear that big......the rest of the problems normally could be fixed at least mostly with surgery, but the dural tear thing would mean an extended time flat on my back, while they waited for it to heal......hoped that it would.
My mother in law is 80 now, so she doesn't drive much after 3 pm and she really needed someone to drive her back and forth to appointments. I was glad that I could do that for her. She's done a lot for us over the years. I'm glad that she's finally feeling better too. I was afraid when they found the vertebreal fracture and her sciatica was really bad, she couldn't stand or walk for a few weeks....
Anyway, thank you all for your ears, and your hugs, they help. There are times when you feel like an absolute failure as a parent. This has made me question my own abilities.
Sandi

[sandi1016]

I hate that I was a "distinguished community member on the other forums, " now I'm NEW???????? What' s that all about? Why couldn't they just transfer our information from the other forums?
Anyone know?

[sandi1016]

Hi Sandi,
Sorry to hear that you might have to go through surgery again. Hoping everything works out great for you.

I'm 65 and kids sure have changed, how I was raised, how I raised mine......and this is in no way offense to you. Nowadays all kids don't want to work for anything but they want everything 'now', no thought of where it's coming from/who's paying for it. Then they are drawn to guys that look like they belong to a gang, heck I remember my sis, who was 8 yrs older, riding the back of a motorcycle with her guy; my dad had fits. I was drawn to the same type. Must be in female genes<G> My 2 girls had part time jobs at 16, saved $$ to buy vehicles, then SO taught them how to change oil, tires etc. They also had chores around the house, never heard sass from them....well a couple of times.

No child at 18 likes to be told what to do, altho I do agree with you, she's living in your house, your rules. Only problem now is she might have some place to run? To boyfriends apartment/house? Don't know if he's living alone?

I'dsuggest sitting down with her, mom/daughter without father, having a nice talk, no shouting. What does she want out of life...l Guess you have to be careful, not to push her away, or you might be a Grandma before your time......Be proud of her for what she's accomplished in life so far and let her know it....leave boyfriend out of discussion.......just my 2 cents. Good luck with your surgery hon hugs, kat

Thanks Puddykat,
You're completely right, no 18 year old wants to be told what to do and we ( my husband and I understand that), are even empathetic with her point of view....but, as I said before, there is far more to the story with this daughter, the boyfriend that we don't approve of, and the flaunting of the rules in our house than I can go into here.....
We did talk to her, several times in fact, before about the name calling, the lateness, not being where she said she was, or with those she said she was with.....and she continued doing what she was doing. She thought that because she was doing it in another town that she could get away with it.....but she also knows that there are people all over where we live that know either me or my husband and if she is doing something that they think we don't know about, we will hear about it......sooner or later.
The episode where I told her to leave was just the last incident. You're also right, kids today don't know how to work for what they want, they confuse wants with needs and don't necessarily care how it is gotten , just that it is.....it's frustrating as a parent to be told that their friends are doing things that we say no to......and that becomes a weapon in the kids arsenal against their parents.
We will talk to her. And one way or another resolve the problems, I hope.
Sandi

[sandi1016]

Ya know what you need? You need a big ole ((((HUG))))!!!! And then you need to give yourself a break. 18 is a tough time because legally they are adults but sadly most of them are mentally nowhere near that! I honestly am surprised my parents let me live through my teens. Just keep reminding yourself that you did the best you could with the information and abilities you had at the time! What's going on with her is NOT a reflection of you. And someday maybe she will hug you and say, "Thanks Mom, for not killing me all those years ago." I know I did it to my mom and dad.

(((HUGS)))

Absolutely Melanie,
Our daughter believes that because she is 18 , that means that we don't get any say about what she does, or who with, or when she comes in....but as we tried to explain to her, when she is living in someone else's home, parents or otherwise, there are rules, common decency that is expected from everyone living there , and no matter how old someone is, doesn't give her the right to disrespect those rules because she doesn't agree with them.
When she is paying her own way, living under her own roof, then she can make the rules for her home .......until then, we expect her to let us know where she is, who with, not lie to us, and to be trustworthy.....if she can't, then she doesn't get the "perks" that come with someone who is.
sandi

[Mark N]

Sandi, you are right on all the things you have said about your daughter. She is a normal teenager and the biggest issue with them is they want to be adults and do what they want even when living on parents money and house. They don't understand that they still have rules to follow. One of the big issues with my wife over the last few years was she didn't understand how to let kids grow up because her parents kept their kids under their thumbs no matter how old they were. As I told my wife we need to let them grow up and ease up on the rules, still having rules though, because at that age they could be in Afghanistan fighting for our country. Its never easy to deal with kids at that age unless they are too meek because they are trying to test the limits.

As far as the surgery goes only you will know if it is worth to take the risk to be better. I wish it was easier to know if a surgery is the right thing to do but as your last two surgeries showed it doesn't mean you will be better after a surgery.

Hang in there and your daughter will come around. My wife and daughter were at each others neck and my wife was worried she wouldn't even come to our house after moving out but I told her after a couple of years she would have a different attitude and that is what has happened for us. As the kids get more experience they come to see what we have gone through and understand what we were trying to do. You just have to let them go for a while. It is good that your sister makes her follow their rules and it shows your rules weren't the issue and she will get over it.

[sandi1016]

Hi Mark,
You're right, she is a normal teenager, and she could, honestly be doing things that are far worse than what she is doing, but at the same time, it is no excuse for her disrespecting us.
I love her and she is so much like me as a teenager, that it is scary, and it took alot for me to get to this point......but I hope that like me, she will learn quickly that being responsible for yourself isn't as easy as it looks, and that with a little respect for your parents, and honesty, you get a lot further in life than you do by being sneaky and disrespectful.
I have learned to ease up on some of the rules for her, we have had to, since she is legally an adult, but curfews are there for a reason. And it is common courtesy for the rest of the family to come in at a decent hour.....
We love her, and she is like I said before, a great kid in so many respects, we are lucky . I know that she will find that living with anyone else isn't easy either, and compromising is a good thing....for everyone.
I'm glad that things are much better for you Mark. I'm glad that things are improved all around.
Sandi

[Melanie]

Ya know Sandi, long ago when my oldest hit 18 he thought that made him a MAN and he could do whatever he wanted. He soon learned that 18 was just a number. Being a man means you can support yourself! I have to say, he turned into a rather nice young man now. But then the Marines, a wife and a baby will tend to do that to people ;)

Things do get better eventually, honest. I'm surprised my parents let me live to find out, lol!

[Jolene]

Stay strong Sandi. Life is just grand some days.